| [08:43:51] | <Elin> | Does ANYONE have an extra ethernet cable? |
| [08:45:09] | <Elin> | http://www.metafourths.com/~bighook/arsc |
| [08:45:16] | <Shapiro> | can we give a clap of appreciation for that fine music? |
| [08:45:32] | <Elin> | Login with lastname (i.e., Elin) and password ´smart´ |
| [08:51:13] | <Elin> | (d) the decision to separate basic from enhanced services, and (e) Microsoft´s decision to include a TCP/IP stack in Windows95. |
| [08:54:39] | <Isenberg> | Good morning BigHookers!  |
| [09:01:39] | <Isenberg> | Does somebody want to use this to take online notes? If so, please do! |
| [09:04:04] | <Shirky> | the tradeoff between delay and reliability defeats QoS and debugging |
| [09:04:18] | <Shirky> | (capturing notes for the chat room) |
| [09:05:05] | <Shirky> | BSD as the first full network-aware operating system |
| [09:05:31] | <Shirky> | (a strategy that defeated DEC, among others) |
| [09:06:36] | <Shirky> | (from earlier: circuit switching requires denial rather than degradation of service) |
| [09:07:29] | <Shirky> | a related piece of writing is ´joel on software´s recent post on platforms |
| [09:07:54] | <kaminski> | related history: http://museum.media.org/eti/RoundOne09.html |
| [09:08:25] | <Shirky> | http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Platforms.html |
| [09:12:32] | <kaminski> | Summer 1980 The NSF board decided to invest $5 million in the CSNET. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/icann/pressingissues2000/briefingbook/dnshistory.html |
| [09:12:50] | <Shirky> | Question? Who has the best internet timeline? |
| [09:13:25] | <Shirky> | Email, as usual, the thin edge of the wedge |
| [09:14:04] | <Isenberg> | please post Internet timeline URL!!!  |
| [09:14:19] | <kaminski> | http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/ |
| [09:15:02] | <Shirky> | thanks peter |
| [09:17:50] | <Weinberger> | I´d like to blog the links y´all have been posting as having been offered at this unnamed conference. |
| [09:18:27] | <Shirky> | blanket approval for my links, david |
| [09:18:50] | <Michalski> | meesa puttin´ them in the Brain... :) |
| [09:19:23] | <Elin> | Jabbalski? |
| [09:20:23] | <kaminski> | email note from Suzanne Johnson, who hooked Intel to CSnet: http://internet-history.org/memories/0017.html |
| [09:21:08] | <Michalski> | indeeda |
| [09:21:37] | <Shirky> | The Seven Layers are a lie! |
| [09:22:31] | <Elin> | ???? |
| [09:22:55] | <Shirky> | The OSI model is actually a bad fir for the world |
| [09:23:15] | <Shirky> | the net is basically 4 layers, and hides all the details of the underlying networks from the datagrams |
| [09:23:22] | <Elin> | thanks |
| [09:23:22] | <Shirky> | fir == fit |
| [09:23:39] | <Elin> | So the SEVEN layers are a lie...but the layers model is still powerful? |
| [09:23:48] | <Michalski> | I thought it was a bad tree... |
| [09:23:53] | <kaminski> | layers is good -- osi is overdone |
| [09:24:33] | <kaminski> | osi == network development by fiat; internet == development by rfc, "rough consensus and running code" |
| [09:25:41] | <Michalski> | for fiat, you could substitute "self-interested committee" |
| [09:25:52] | <Elin> | Agreed...I think more and more elements of technology are adopting the layered approach -- it is the hidden metaphor. |
| [09:25:55] | <kaminski> | Dave Clark, A Cloudy Crystal Ball / Apocalypse Now, July 1992, 24th annual IETF conference: "We reject kings, presidents, and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." |
| [09:26:17] | <Michalski> | have a link, Pete? |
| [09:27:34] | <Freeburg> | Is it possible that the self-interest doesn´t even include a working network |
| [09:29:59] | <kaminski> | http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.10/ietf.html http://rintintin.colorado.edu/~caseyh/InternetPolicy.html#sdfootnote36sym http://www.cdt.org/dns/010406paper.pdf |
| [09:30:40] | <Shirky> | freeburg: ??? |
| [09:30:53] | <Michalski> | wowza, what a URL |
| [09:31:12] | <Shirky> | 3 urls on one line |
| [09:32:09] | <Isenberg> | There´s a good URL called "makeashorterlink.com" which does exactly what it says |
| [09:33:34] | <kaminski> | tinyurl is even shorter -- but either one would slow me down, sorry |
| [09:34:19] | <Robles> | go pete |
| [09:34:29] | <Michalski> | sorry; took me a bit to figure out it was 3 URLs; thank you, Pete! |
| [09:36:39] | <Elin> | Cook: "Being able do something without having to prove it needs to be done is what the Internet is all about." |
| [09:37:45] | <Michalski> | so... the best business decision is often the worst overall decision? |
| [09:39:36] | <Gillmor> | NSFNET AUP: http://www.creighton.edu/nsfnet-aup.html |
| [09:39:40] | <Elin> | Question: When will Congress pass the law prohibitting non-commercial uses of the Internet? |
| [09:42:11] | <kaminski> | don´t close options any earlier than necessary |
| [09:44:47] | <Freeburg> | letting OSF in in the first place? |
| [09:45:57] | <kaminski> | david asked about bad decisions; I´ve always admired the RFC process as one that allows lots of decisions, but weeds out the bad ones quickly |
| [09:46:00] | <Shirky> | Note on Congress´s role in pushing privatization: http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jcthomsonjr/j561/NSFcomm-5.html |
| [09:46:29] | <Michalski> | another heuristic?: as soon as something gets too much attention, its design suffers |
| [09:46:54] | <kaminski> | as soon as something becomes too dear, its design suffers |
| [09:47:35] | <Michalski> | woo! |
| [09:48:15] | <kaminski> | heuristic: don´t minimize the number of decisions; make lots of them, and get good at deciding well |
| [09:48:42] | <Beckemeyer> | Scott, you forgot to tell us why David was wrong re: MS including TCP/IP in windows |
| [09:48:50] | <Elin> | OOPS (Apologies!) BRADNER: "Being able do something without having to prove it needs to be done is what the Internet is all about." |
| [09:49:12] | <kaminski> | thanks, scott! |
| [09:49:34] | <kaminski> | note for the log - new speaker, Bob Pepper |
| [09:50:21] | <Shapiro> | with all those bosses, Pepper is a "survivor" |
| [09:52:23] | <Freeburg> |  |
| [09:53:06] | <Stout> | Make sure you vote on the shirt |
| [09:56:23] | <Shirky> |  the auctions didn´t help |
| [09:56:52] | <Shirky> | the buyers have essentially raised the price of the necessary user sservices by paying for them in advance |
| [09:57:00] | <Michalski> | FLMPTS? |
| [09:57:26] | <Michalski> | shirky speaks for me, there |
| [09:57:35] | <Shirky> | Future Public Land Mobile Telecommunications System |
| [09:57:54] | <Michalski> | pretty much guaranteed we wouldn´t have low rates and put the startups´ existences in jeopardy from the start |
| [09:58:08] | <kaminski> | FLMPTS (Future Public Land Mobile Telecommunications System): nuovo standard, primo rivale dell´UMTS ( vedi voce), per la telefonia mobile terrestre del XXII secolo ancora in fase di definizione da parte dell´International Telecommunications Union. |
| [09:58:17] | <Shapiro> | forever loving my proud tough switcher |
| [09:58:30] | <Comstedt> | Donīt give me any crap about analogue mobile not working in "europe" NMT was the success that GSM was built upon |
| [09:58:44] | <Shirky> | And guranteed that the kind of revenue sharing that encourages external innovation is unsupportable |
| [10:00:45] | <Shapiro> | and now Cape Cod has no working dentists |
| [10:00:59] | <Berry> | Balkanizing the licensing was also a problem. Why not national licenses? |
| [10:02:10] | <Clark> | first we strap down the possibilities w/ licenses |
| [10:04:26] | <Robles> | Why any licenses at all? |
| [10:04:52] | <Shirky> | because we treat spectrum as property. Licence == virtual real estate deed |
| [10:04:59] | <kaminski> | "JERRY HAUSMAN, Economist: They did the cellular lottery for Cape Cod, a dentist won sold it a week later for $40 million. " PBS transcript |
| [10:05:04] | <Robles> | Why can´t the wireless spectrum be open much like the UNI Band is now? |
| [10:05:22] | <Michalski> | this property metaphor´s gotta go |
| [10:05:31] | <Shirky> | We´d have to swithc to software-defineed transmissions |
| [10:05:34] | <kaminski> | the old idea was to segregate usage by frequency |
| [10:05:40] | <Robles> | Is the Internet property? |
| [10:05:46] | <Robles> | |
| [10:06:00] | <Shirky> | right now, we disambiguate signals by forbidding rather than resolving transmission conflicts |
| [10:06:16] | <Clark> | why can´t technology do that? |
| [10:06:19] | <Shirky> | jerry posts for me |
| [10:06:33] | <Robles> | The technology can do that now. |
| [10:06:34] | <Michalski> | we´re cross-posters, clay |
| [10:06:37] | <Shirky> | judi: it can. Reed´s done some interesting work on that |
| [10:06:49] | <Clark> | and where is he now? (Reed) |
| [10:07:19] | <Clark> | (Yes, I follow his work, but apparently the govt doesn´t. eh?) |
| [10:07:53] | <Shirky> | |
| [10:08:06] | <kaminski> | FCC Combinatorial Bidding Conference 2000 Papers: http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/conferences/combin2000/papers.html |
| [10:08:23] | <Isenberg> | Reed will be here this morning (he told me) |
| [10:08:55] | <Comstedt> | thr dependence between the UK market and the German is less than the dependence between New York and LA |
| [10:08:57] | <Michalski> | xlnt! |
| [10:09:06] | <Clark> | Reed´s Locus: http://www.reed.com/dprframeweb/dprframe.asp |
| [10:10:36] | <Shirky> | not treating spectrum as propertyt would fix taht |
| [10:10:55] | <Comstedt> | so that is another reason not to have auctions |
| [10:11:08] | <Michalski> | Pepper: Bankruptcy law trumped telecom law, preventing the defunct small player licenses from reverting back for re-auction |
| [10:13:16] | <kaminski> | David Reed on ham radio, should be commons for experimental stuff like software radios: http://www.amsat-uk.org/ListArchives/amsat-bb/2002/msg03738.html |
| [10:15:20] | <kaminski> | "don´t let the perfect be the enemy of the good" -- same heuristic, don´t let things become too dear |
| [10:16:02] | <Forster> | Anyone have a URL for this "Sky Pilot" networks |
| [10:16:33] | <kaminski> | http://www.skypilot.com/ |
| [10:17:09] | <Weinberger> | what are these nanodevices of which he speaks? |
| [10:17:15] | <Robles> | This is the same as what Bob Burger company was doing. |
| [10:17:32] | <Robles> | And Nokia is already shiping this type of solution. |
| [10:17:33] | <kaminski> | i think he meant "really small" -- maybe like bluetooth |
| [10:17:49] | <Weinberger> | What wants to communicate 2"? |
| [10:18:17] | <Weinberger> | Even headset to cellphone is a foot or two. |
| [10:18:20] | <Michalski> | earthworms courting |
| [10:18:28] | <Weinberger> | thanks, jerry |
| [10:18:32] | <Robles> | Skypilot has recently changed thier business model and has not deployed anything yet. |
| [10:19:43] | <Robles> | |
| [10:20:18] | <kaminski> | Charge from the FCC Chairman to the Advisory council, 7.1 Spectrum Management; some issues from the TAC like cognitive radios: http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/fccadv/full_charge.htm |
| [10:21:19] | <Robles> | He is right. |
| [10:21:41] | <kaminski> | Bob Berger´s company: http://www.ultradevices.com/ |
| [10:21:43] | <Robles> | We have gone too far to the negative. |
| [10:22:43] | <Forster> | I think Bob Berger´s company has run out of money... |
| [10:22:47] | <Elin> | What I never understood...Why weren´t the licenses ´leased´? |
| [10:23:44] | <Robles> | I think you are right about Bob´s company. |
| [10:24:05] | <Black> | http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2002/tc20020821_0210.htm |
| [10:24:12] | <cook> | yes ultradevices is history |
| [10:24:15] | <Black> | that´s the article |
| [10:24:40] | <Robles> | I like the idea about wireless meshed networks but it has been my experince so far that they don´t work and the bandwidth actuly deliverd is poor. |
| [10:25:15] | <Thatcher> | Someone has to invest first with the faith that everyone in the neighborhood will also invest, right? |
| [10:26:53] | <Robles> | Yes and more. |
| [10:27:03] | <Thatcher> | More? |
| [10:27:17] | <Gillmor> | You can make a strong national-security argument FOR taxpayer-funded deployment of (true) broadband...decentralization benefits. |
| [10:27:18] | <Robles> | You also have to build a cell network to support the bandwidth. |
| [10:27:33] | <Weinberger> | "Help us, Senator ... or else the terrorists have won." |
| [10:27:53] | <Robles> | You only get the 2 megs if your are very near the cell tower. |
| [10:28:25] | <Robles> | Other wise you are getting 150-500K kinds of speeds. Less than cable modems. |
| [10:28:33] | <Thatcher> | Isn´t there a big national budget coming for homeland defense, aren´t we a critical portion of that plan/ |
| [10:28:52] | <Robles> | Yes re: homeland defense. |
| [10:29:07] | <Berry> | If I was a senator, and got the RBOCs delivered such a dire story, I´d be looking to develop some alternatives (companies, technologies) to have as backup... |
| [10:29:17] | <Forster> | Pepper said yesterday that FCC decided that UNEP did not apply to business services... |
| [10:29:47] | <Thatcher> | If you were a Senator, you´d be looking for a donation  |
| [10:29:59] | <Shirky> | DRM != copyright |
| [10:30:08] | <kaminski> | The High Tech Broadband Coalition: http://www.thehtbc.com/ |
| [10:30:10] | <Black> | if it doesn´t apply to business services, the case that the lecs are getting screwed is much less powerful. and it wasn´t powerful to begin with |
| [10:30:22] | <Black> | i mean if unep doesn´t apply |
| [10:31:07] | <Berry> | |
| [10:31:29] | <Robles> | |
| [10:33:18] | <Shirky> | jane, did you post the link to your article? |
| [10:33:57] | <kaminski> | she did: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2002/tc20020821_0210.htm |
| [10:34:06] | <Shirky> | thanks pete |
| [10:34:42] | <Shirky> | the ILECs don´t want us to get out of this recession for the same reason the japanese banks don´t want to get out of theirs |
| [10:35:27] | <Weinberger> | And that reasons is...? |
| [10:35:51] | <Shirky> | they are the ones wiht the phoney value on their books |
| [10:36:11] | <Berry> | |
| [10:36:13] | <Comstedt> | maybe the border between "local" and "backbone " changes |
| [10:36:45] | <kaminski> | bradner: wap - gateway under control of carrier |
| [10:36:59] | <Robles> | |
| [10:37:02] | <Shirky> | BT lost the ´locked gateway" battle as well |
| [10:38:05] | <kaminski> | bradner: i-mode model - don´t get in the way of applications - others increase value of commodity service |
| [10:38:47] | <Aizu> | In Korea and Hong Kong, neither WAP or iMode is there, but each downlodavble applicatoin is taking off |
| [10:39:19] | <Gillmor> | A recent piece I did about DoCoMo: http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/columnists/2970512.htm |
| [10:39:23] | <Forster> | But Docomo getting 9% is bundling... |
| [10:39:24] | <Shirky> | Izumi: example or pointers? |
| [10:39:26] | <kaminski> | Japan-made contents on Hong Kong cellular phones : http://ne.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/2000/12/1205itu_mobile.html |
| [10:39:33] | <Berry> | I want to pay my phone bill with frequent flyer miles |
| [10:40:04] | <Aizu> | example is - online shopping, download characters, music, without any mutual application interface platform but it is getting popular |
| [10:40:06] | <Shirky> | FF Miles are like the German mark in 1933 -- heading for a massive devaluation |
| [10:40:23] | <Berry> | That´s why I want to use them now. \smile\ |
| [10:40:23] | <Forster> | The choice is not between totally closed and (WAP) and totally unbundled |
| [10:40:34] | <kaminski> | pepper: in US, state-by-state regulation complicate regulation |
| [10:40:43] | <Aizu> | Yes, Japan, Korea, HK, Taiwan, getting closer and mutually sharing many similar services, that´s culture I mentioned yesterday |
| [10:40:47] | <Shirky> | forster: it isn´t bundling, its like the CC fee for clearing. they are selling not transport but billing |
| [10:41:10] | <kaminski> | pepper: wap=walled garden; i-mode=garden with gates |
| [10:41:46] | <Forster> | i-mode sounds fine, but note it´s bundling |
| [10:44:47] | <Thatcher> | Does the scroll bar work on anyones system? |
| [11:06:14] | <Campbell> | LogNote: 1a=tapes T1, T2, T3 to 18:18 |
| [11:07:19] | <Campbell> | LogNote: 1b=tapes T3 after 18:18, T4, T5 to 11:36 |
| [11:08:25] | <Campbell> | LogNote: 2=T5 after 11:36, T6 |
| [11:09:35] | <Campbell> | LogNote: 3a=T7, T8, T9 to 20:36 |
