welcome!

hello world

testing 1 2 3

Frank Vignola and Vinny Raniolo, melody monsters!

Nice and mellow.

If you didn't receive an invitation to join me in the chat, please let me know: judic@manymedia.com (sitting in the red t-shirt in the middle of the room)

welcome to Big Hook 201!

pfft. 2011!

hazing ritual ooh err!!!

Guy, we have a hazing free zone but it's a secret.

for those who wish to strike at the roots: http://www.keds.com/store/SiteController/keds/home

dashewoffshore.com

look at the paradigm

hi,y'all. I'm one of those 18 new people.

Language, David!

Plain English Benoit

Hi, I'm new too.

just be wise.

Hello everyone, I'm new too.

And we think so too..:-)

hmmm doomsday scenarios. let my mind wander!

and hello new people!

See "The Coffee Trader", take place in Amsterdam, deals with the start of commodity trading..http://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Trader-Novel-…

I am also new

And scared of hazing

for perspective, I'm in the outfield. Pass thru it while you're here.

Booh!

we smell fear maggie

Booooo-hoooooo !

wow. judi has official anonymous headgear!

me want one

Alternatively, Judi will kill us all to herald the avent of the new world...

can we all agree on a noise to make when we hear nathan myhrvold's name?

Something I was discussing with Gwenn earlier that relates to what David was just talking about: It would be very helpful to have translations of acronyms coming through this chat.

what sound do trolls make?

hi doc!

I won't kill anyone here. Promise

Wendy Seltzer: = http://soundbible.com/tags-troll.html

Skype finally announcing magic jack-like adapters that allow you to use your regulat home phone to make calls. happy to see it but WHY did it take them so long?

Thank you BH Sponsors: Cisco!! Thanks Pepper!

Thanks to Ram at Affilias!

Thanks to Google and Rick!

thanks to rick whitt for not being evil - a tough thing to be in washington DC

And thanks to Cisco for buying Linksys and opening the WRT54G source :)

right on!

BH on Youtube???? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVwI5FYZOuU

maybe not :)

refreshing to be at an event that values privacy vs search hits

http://gigaom.com/collaboration/skype-home-phone/ on the magic jack adaptors for Skype

Didn't magic jack get sued into near-oblivion?

apparently not

Is it actually made by Magic Jack, or just Magic-Jackesque? I got the impression it's the latter.

specific intention vs unspecific i.e. throw a rock into the pond and see where the ripples reach - you know something will happen but not necessarily specifically what

consequences that never occurred

undesired by whom?

five reasons for incorrect anticipation of consequences

free the paper!

Yo, all.

lo Doc

Here's a ink to the paper: http://isen.com/bighook/2011/misc/Merton%2… (PDF)

Normal Accidents (book)

Perrow explains Murphy's Law.

This is a worthwhile book to read, for people interested in why wrong predictions and unforeseen consequences happen. I just started reading it, but it's excellent. http://www.amazon.com/Wrong-us-Scientists-…

wow - both WSJournal and Forbes coming out in favor of blocking AT&T/T Mobile merger. both are usually knee-jerk big business defenders.

Wrote about Perrow's take on the first Shuttle disaster here: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2011/02/1…

yikes

fantastic (relatively short) paper on common failures that lead to consequences: http://www.ptc.org/ptc09/images/papers/PTC…

ok oops that last paper got moved.

chat will not be the same :-(

hazing!

I have always thought "case western reserve" would be better name for either an agricultural equipment company or some sort of high end winery or maybe a combination of the two.,

love the big screen

A case of Western Reserve for Steve, here.

tx fer the help, Judi

happy to email the paper on 24 deficiencies in emergency management, title: ACHIEVING INTEROPERABILITY IN PUBLIC SAFETY AND EMERGENCY RESPONSE IT/COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS

Ooooh, speaking of unintended consequences. Turns out that antibiotic resistance is ancient. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/…

omg with Maggie in the room, chat ante just rose significantly :)

oh yeah.

ummm what is the ante?

Early song by the Clash: "What's My Name?"

more than you can afford, Elliot.

*sigh*

Maggie just took it out of my budget too.

Wrote about the Google+ common names policy here... http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/vrm/2011/08/2… ... but tried to look deeper than the identity issues alone.

lol

saw that, Doc...thx

youtube links the actual video

what's that about?

is that your ante, Elliot?

it's not Doc's post, I'm sure.

I just wanted to post a more recent version of "what's my name" to show I was hipper than rick

beyonce what's my name

aha. ok. right...

hey, there's a mashup that's very good too.

Could "edge cases" like tribal areas prove existence proofs in US as alternative to mainstream telco-as-a-service model?

there you go judi, upping the ante

I dunno Elliot, depends on who's in at this point. Nothing quite like graphics...

There are some edge cases in EU too, like in the mountains of Bavaria

a great TED talk about how first nations were treated over time: http://www.ted.com/talks/aaron_huey.html

if somebody else goes out for water, can you bring me one?'

Reminds me of the group of Stanford students who tried to start something basically like Facebook in 1996. Got shut down by the school, because they wanted control the same way.

Levi's bio http://www.maaia.com/levi/bio/ and Twitter handle: http://twitter.com/#!/levimaaia

what's your favorite unintended consequence?

John's blog: http://blog.lafayetteprofiber.com/

Hmm... "pretired"... Does that mean "retired" means "tired again?" Maybe what we call retired is actually "posttired," as in "after tired."

A new link to the 24 deficiencies paper: http://manymedia.com/wp-content/uploads/20… (PDF)

ACHIEVING INTEROPERABILITY IN PUBLIC SAFETY AND EMERGENCY RESPONSE IT/COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS by Robert Desourdis

unintended consequences due to cascading systems failures

(human failures)

would it be weird if I change my name to john st. julien? cool name

it's delightful to be surrounded by fabulous people who've done substantive things to improve humanity's connectivity. David, thank you for convening such a great posse

joi of course

YES. It's weird, but I love being around people who make me feel like I'm wasting my life.

heh, right Maggie.

Ha, open source gegiers counters...where is the link?

grihrt ofcourse

Open source geiger counters. I want that as an add-on to my (Android) tricorder

geiger ofcourse

That's the open-source radiation readings site

wow, IT as a new industry in Japan!

fumi and joi = frankie and johnny? (grin)

Guy: http://nextgenis.com/

every year, more community networks. we are winning a few blocks at a time

?

NO, here it is: Home - NextGenUs www.nextgenus.net/

http://www.facebook.com/groups/234974426517670/ = unintended consequence of using FB to engage with customers and discovering a community ready to help support each other

you are new. we are holding back

Unintended consequence of going to DC: staying there.

Marvin on Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/marvin_ammori and Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Ammori

the onomatopoetic newsfeed: boingboing

Before the LIghts Go Out (watch for it in the spring, by Maggie)

damn adhocery

Jerry-rigging?

Just for the record: Jury rig is a makeshift repair, and Jerry built is shoddily built, going back to when we called the Germans Huns and Jerries in WWI

Tadpole to a monkey in a week.. and plan it - great analogy!

Maggie's Twitter http://twitter.com/#!/maggiekb1

rebound effect aka Jevons paradox or Khazoom Brookes postulate

Can we combine the two for "jurry rigging?"

there's furry rigging, but that's happening at Burning Man right now

Isn't all that a natural consequence of distributed decision making and a semi-free market? People and companies act mostly in their own self-interest?

there's a furry bike there too. Handing out cold beer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effec…)

Energy efficiency paradox makes sense as in effect the unit cost of energy is reduced making that energy source more accessible/usable by more folks

if we have a gadgethon (a vardi event) then gary would win. he has weird and wonderful inventions

Right, Guy. The economists tell me that this is where carbon taxes could be useful. Steer people to increasing use of clean energy instead of dirty. And invest the money in infrastructure development to make efficiency and clean energy easier

his belt is loaded

reallly? Looks like a regular leather belt.

archive.jpeg

must have a James Bond factory in his closet

speaking of evolution...

If it makes you feel more hopeful, Doc, I went to fundamentalist Baptist high school and learned biology from Bob Jones University textbooks

The deniers aren't all lost.

My theory is that God believes in evolution.

but he only tells some people? selective communication?

If God exists, he could stand to spend some time in Toastmasters or something.

What is the name of MaggieKB's new book?

"Before the Lights Go Out", coming April 2012

No Amazon link yet (*fist shake at publishing gods) but soon

"wisdom is the renunciation of knowledge" I LIKE that one

it is not SOX, it is capital concentration

fewer companies go public due to sarbanes oxeley is a GOOD THING IMHO

but gary and I will finance-geek out out of earshot of others :-)

+1 Steve

in the spirit of uttering wisdom here, shall we all pledge to renounce knowledge? Doc, wanna draft a pledge? Elliot, buy the domain? Gwenn, paint a logo :)

What if you know you're wise?

barriers to going public does limit the VC industry's ability t o unload complete specuilative crap on a gullible public which does limit returns for VC's but is probably a good thing for society.

heh Doc I know better than that.

+1 Steve

that makes you a wiseacre, Doc

Fractions obscured information from the masses, created a sense of the elite who can reduce 7/73 in their heads.

Chris makes great trouble.

lawyer whisperer

so much easier to remember the key, that way!

dropbox was just valued at $4b. in other news hell has frozen over

1234ABC

hey, we have News of the World to thank for this. nice work!

Remember when Facebook was caught spying on Google? Thank Chris: http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/201…

time to market those Hell Skates

Levi - actually decimilaizaqtion reduced the minimum "spreads" you could get between bid (what I will pay) and ask (what you will get. Minimum spread went from 1 cent from 1/8th (12.5 cents) or 1/16th (6.25 cents) I cant remember which. Imagine if the smallest coin we had was a nickel and they finally introduced a penny.

Hacking implies that one achieves a technical feat or innovation. To call the UK scandal hacking (CID spoofing) is demeaning of real hacking.

He is wearing a BeerLao T-shirt. major street cred in both the travel geek and beer geek departments in one single Tee. tres cool.

that's a Telegraph article on Chris's actiism

plus the two step authetification of google, works great

Sure, but the public needs a non-technical word for that kind of thing. Hacking works for that context. It's technically incorrect, but it's colloquialism that's not going to change.

BeerLao is like Pilsener Urquell's tropical cousin. super yummy

SteveK: fav beer in known Universe?

How long until these certs can be revoked?

beware the weakest link!

I can show you the facebook page of the iranian "hacker"

Diginotar really F*&ked up, naieve semi govt

he is a great social engineer

and because he is in iran he is simply not worried about being arrested. 21 btw

Want FOIA workshop, yes.

FOIA: Freedom of Information Act

"sink the clipper chip"

I'm sharing a room with this guy. This is gonna be fun !!!

Susan Landau: Surveillance or Security

I'll have to remember to make the bathroom super secure !!!

You guys are going to stay up all night talking and doing each other's hair.

ICANNs "security chief" (for now)

Doing my hair doesn't take half a night. Chris' on the other hand...

Jerry - tough to give oone answer as depends on the's chocolate stout. In there somewhere is any mood time place but. Light - Trumer Pils (Berkeley CA). Medium - probably Ipswich Pal Ale (Mass) Dark - Guiness or Young's chocoolate stout. SOmehwere in the middle of all that is ANY baltic porter (dark like guiness but no "dark finish") sup[er yummy

Love the music

Steve: Can I put in a plug for Breckenridge Vanilla Porter?

What's the name of this song?

Good question. It's probably somewhere in my (organic) brain, but unlike Jerry's, it's not searchable...

Bellovin, Bradner et al: As Simple as Possible -- But Not More So http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2011/8/11495…

Latin Jazz Shredding !

omg, they're on fire! I expect smoke from the guitars momentarily

fastest flat-pickers ever

welcome back! (Newbies no more. We're all family now! bwaaaahaaahaaa)

Wow, Sascha and Elliot have figured out how to wire up all of Africa?

I need to have better conversations at break!

but the hazing ritual...

I solved world hunger during my toilet break, but I don't brag about it...

take hazing to DC?

Ultra broadband is something bigger than 100Mb

DOJ today came down against the ATT merger

reports Roxane

Speaking of the free market: http://www.theonion.com/articles/tea-party…

Paul Krugman's blog from a month or so ago... Alien Invasion

"How Fucked We Are" sounds like a great title for a song.

driving in to woods hole, I listened to rush limbaugh complain about that ("look what the regime has done now") and how ATT was going to bring back 5000 cs jobs. he didn't talk about how many other jobs would be eliminated

Outer Limits!

Architects of Fear on Hulu http://www.hulu.com/watch/63098/the-outer-…

Nasa is funding the development of aliens?

Architects of Hope and Change, by Dewayne Hendricks

"it is much safer to be feared than loved because ...love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails." — Niccolò Machiavelli (The Prince)

On that topic, also read (don't see) Watchmen !

Jean on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Thrivable

if I receive the baller herbst list while being with jim baller can I not just instead ask him what happened over a coffee?

Elliot, you might not get the abbreviated version (that's good!)

yes, Elliot, but you can't mention the coffee

businessist

graphic that purports to show the price of marijuana in the US. Green is cheaper, yellow is more expensive.

Price-of-weed-625x412.png

Any word on why there's that weird pinch effect?

Gallup: people generally like the telephone industry... http://www.gallup.com/poll/149216/American…

I think weed is involved.

FYI - Wikileaks just released a 557.5 megabyte file via Bittorrent. It's encrypted, and Wikileaks says "the decryption key will be released at the appropriate moment."

Is it just about where weed grows well? Or local laws? Or something else? I'm frankly surprised that pot is cheaper in Kansas than Minnesota.

biuggest problem with fiber seems to be marketing, not getting it trenched

marketing, not trenching or just about anything else.

They grow "corn" in Kansas.

Is that what we're calling ditch weed these days?

Also worth noting that it is the DoJ that is suing AT&T not the FCC. Whew! better chance they actually stop it.

lol @maggie

Oh! Sudden thought. What if that chart has more to do with how local law enforcement calculate the "value" of seized drugs?

Sorry, suddenly obsessed with this. Where's it come from, Steve?

Always start in the past.

On Benoit's point - benchmarking of property prices is available from realtor's historical records

like zillow or redfin?

been enjoying this mindtimemaps thing that helps us understand how people are past, present, or future focused and what value each focus can bring to us.

Jinx, Judi. Was just typing that.

:) Great minds?

Word.

Guy, depending on geography, that's not always available. Furthermore, a good analysis of property prices needs to take out all other factors that could affect house prices. Not a simple analysis.

what's hardest to get to is changing in the ways that network users usage change after they get fiber. Lafayette did do a year zero city-wide survey...now we need a way to repeat it.

What was the name of this botnet?

confickr I think

I'm worried for the world: all the ethical activist lawyers are here now, off duty!

Good point Benoit - NextGenUs has some interesting localised comparisons situations emerging where similar properties in the same communities are on the market, one with FTTH and the other not

Wendy also does http://chillingeffects.org/

We should have a temporary flight restriction over airplane house!

wendy also does this http://www.torproject.org/

For those interested, there's a publicly available draft research paper that goes along with that pot map that Steve posted: http://www.floatingsheep.org/2011/08/price…

and a fighter cap, just in case

I misread that as the Torpor Project :/

both cable and telco repair folks ALWAYS park o/s my house to use my open network

Must read blog #1 krugman - http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/3…

Wendy's describing "Copyright Alert System" http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/08/isps-ag…

What Wendy is describing is what we have in France... It's called Hadopi, and it's the devil's brainchild...

I once had a LOLbertarian troll tell me that it would be really great for consumers if companies could put lots of limits on the webpages you could visit based on subscription price points. Paraphrase: "Because maybe somebody wants to pay $10 a month for access to Yahoo only. It's totally oppressive to deny them that."

Practice your French: http://www.fiberevolution.com/2009/05/more…

even more MUST READ econ blog. if you only read one - brad delong from berkeley http://delong.typepad.com/

and wendy got her start as a scribe at ICANN!

back when berkman was doing it

I'd second that Delong recommendation

bighooks own susan crawford has a detailed post on AT&T and T-Mobile. http://scrawford.net/blog/attt-mobile/1503/

Trip to the WHOI ship is amazing. If you haven't gone, GO!

susan's money quote "AT&T argued strongly that the relevant markets are local, and that there is plenty of competition in local markets because Metro PCS, Leap, US Cellular, and the (not-yet-operating and apparently doomed) LightSquared are also present. This is like asserting that my former hometown of Washington, DC has several football teams: the Redskins, the Georgetown University team, and the Gonzaga High School team. It’s strange to say that the last two are substitutable for the first."

I'd like to see the chimpunk sounds generator on Alvin

(calling Maggie...)

Yup yup?

Go on this tour! it's amazing stuff

Oh, I will be. 15-year-old Maggie would kill me if I skipped it.

I don't really know how that would work with the time-space continuum, but ...

Chris is at http://www.ilsr.org

OK, I'll be the devil's advocate: how does any group back up their claim that they know what's good for the community?

trust us jim

Seems that challenging the unintended consequences of UK govt funding is finally getting some media attention... http://bit.ly/oQFFKb http://bit.ly/nDEQ6a

the regulations aren't designed to keep very large companies in check, they're designed to keep them in cheques!

Chris and his shots on Google+ : https://plus.google.com/102887430347172045…

http://www.muninetworks.org/

yeah, but no decent community org would ever give us our Jerry Springer, or even maybe MTV! We want our MTV!

The whole color spectrum is too ambitious. Let's just start with orange

director of e-rate

cursor cowboy?

Dave Hughes

here's a interesting bio of Dave: http://www.west-point.org/academy/dgrad/No…

Apple, apparently, has lost a prototype of the next iPhone in a bar (again, not an Onion article): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20099899…

unofficially, he trains man-eating sharks to play the oboe

Sascha recommends rock climbing

I draw the line at rock listening.

What are the chances that those are more like "lost"-a-prototype-in-a-bar scenarios? I mean, the marketing value of the last one was pretty big, I'd think.

Sascha in French: http://www.lemonde.fr/technologies/article…

from my Brain: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/think-…

"Internet in a suitcase"

anti-Internet in a trunk

Internet: you can take it anywhere!

So, he trolled Iran?

More detail on the Internet in a Suitcase: http://www.dailywireless.org/2011/06/13/ce…

;)

I hear Iran will now release, as a countermeasure, Internet in a Handbag. take that!

when men define a situation as real, it is real...

Internet in a suitcase

Reality follows art, doesn't it?

That's what comes up...

Something that bothers me about encryption is that unless EVERYONE uses it then those who do get marked out for special attention...

How many of us are unintended consequences?

Guy, for small groups a closed email smtp/pop server with TLS on Ubuntu, at somebodies home, will do

I also live a life of unintended consequences.

new MVNO called Tin

er, Ting

yeah, our use cases are kids in schools who want to text for free, local community members who want to make free calls, etc... oh, and also revolutionaries working to overthrow repressive regimes. but since there's a real financial incentive to use the technology, we expect that the vast majority of users won't ever be doing anything particularly sensitive.

Elliot on Twitter: http://twitter.com/enoss

Commotion project page: http://tech.chambana.net/projects/commotion

I am one of a twin, one of us was unintended but we never found who was the unintended and who was the intended one

Telcos: fooling customers for decades!

Herman, true but the act of participating in any group using encrypted traffic can be reason enough to cause major problem for folks living under repressive regimes ie it is not the info itself but the act of using crypto that marks folks out

MVNO: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtua…

Virgin Mobile and Boost Mobile are MVNOs

"micro pubic companies will be the future..."

Highly recommend: Death of Demand by Tom Osenton - http://www.amazon.com/Death-Demand-Saturat…

re: valuation, stock market, and financial trends

@ Guy, agreed

micro PUBLIC companies...that's interesting..

[PDF] Collective hallucinations and inefficient markets: The British Railway ... http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/halluc…

"humans are really good at generating unintended consequences" ~ Andrew

oh our mobile offering is here http://ting.com

WirelessU.org

wndw.net

some consequences we believe to be unintended were very much intended by those pulling the strings...

Chris Mitchell - yup u are bang on the money there!!!

One of the biggest unintended consequences of the rise of railroads in the USA was the enormous growth of the number of horses...there was suddenly a need to travel to the station :-)

Very interesting aspect of UK railways in rural areas (the second wave after the big intercity, national routes that premirrored the dot-com bubble) was that the folks who invested in them pretty much lost their shirts - lessons for rural FTTH!!!

its a BIG job!

Judi Clark - http://www.manymedia.com/

Book I'd recommend for understanding how infrastructures like rail, transport, electricity developed in the United States and the unintended consequences of those: http://www.amazon.com/Consuming-Nature-Env…

congratulations!

I hope Judi framed the cease and desist!!!

For those interested in Gig.U, take a look at http://www.gig-u.org

If you still have it, send it to ChillingEffects!

what is the relationship between serendipity and unintended consequences?

Anyone interested in the efforts at Case Western Reserve, take a look at http://www.caseconnectionzone.org

for those interested in muni broadband subscribe to jim's list

for those interested in broadband at all, subscribe to Jim's list =)

Jean - that's on a par with "what is the meaning of life?", at least to my limited intellect :)

to sign up for jim's list http://www.cbnconnect.org/BALLER_SIGN_UP.php

Jean, serendipty is giving a meaning and purpose to unintended consequences

The cease and desist was electronic. They never sent a real letter. Alas, it was lost in a series of failed backup drives. (Damned technology!)

Herman Wagter: exactly!

Jim's list rocks. It always ends up causing an hour or more of productive distraction.

Yeah great answer Herman

imagine if we had electric railways!

Herman, do you mind if I embroider that and hang it on my wall?

Maggie, if you send me photo

:-)

Hmmm, I think it is not about giving up meaning - we are always constructing narratives of meaning... but serendipity might be when we give up our immense sense of agency and simply notice and feel lucky for what comes to and through us?

I want hugh mcleod to do a cartoon for it

Looking through Google's new Terms of Service for their App Engine & am having a WTF moment: Section 2.2 "Your use of the Service must comply with all applicable laws, regulations and ordinances, including any laws regarding the export of data or software. You agree not to use the Service in the design, development, production, or use of missiles or the design, development, production, stockpiling, or use of chemical or biological weapons. You agree not to use the XMPP API to operate or to enable any telecommunications service or in connection with any applications that allow users to place calls to or receive calls from any public switched telephone network."

So phone calls and biological weapons are equally bad?

CALEA-avoidance, or E-911?

ah, misread it Herman... thanks

well you would not just anyone designing missiles

or making phone calls, apparently.

or using G+

I thought the point WAS to make phone calls

The whole idea of a PSTN is become arcane.

To Verizon, making phone calls outside their network is the equivalent of using missiles against them.

Levi - unless the P changes from Public to Packet

Don't call it phone call. call it Hangout-minus

so now i can't accept terms of service for google application engine due to my work with Commotion... rick, help!

just initial a page for him rick

Sascha, are you enabling telecommunications services? I thought they don't exist anymore.

Left Fidelity in January. Then 5 weeks backpacking in Laos/Cambodia. The apartment sold, so we came back to the US and did a 7 day cross country drive across the US in a 26 foot Penske Rental truck with our household goods. Flew back east and started a 6,500 mile drive in our car from Boston with stops in New York, DC, Baltimore, Asheville NC, Atlanta, Birmingham, Nashville, Little Rock, the Mississippi Delta (Greeenwood, Natchez), Lafayette LA, Austin TX, Marfa TX, Santa Fe NM, Taos NM, Sheridan Wyoming, Boulder CO, and Denver. Great trip (although the "really-zippy-but-we-took-out-all-the-sound-damping-to-reduce-weight" Honda Civic SI was perhaps not the best car to do it in). Re-connected with a lot of family and old friends along the way (hence most of the zig-zagging). From Denver, my wife Willow took the car a last 1,500 miles to San Fran while I spent a really magical 2 weeks sailing on Bighooker Anders Comstedt's boat in Sweden with Bighooker Jim Forster. They house/dog sitting in Berkeley CA. Now visiting my parents in western Michigan and then some time on the East coast. Back in CA on Sept 8.

IMG_2918.JPG

Rick -- hey, that's a good point, a public switched telephone network is now a figment of reality, but regulatorily non-existent.

Maggie, what's that link to?

Relevant far side cartoon

Teh power of adversity

nice sequence of unintended consequences, Dr Kamman!

(sorry for the typos)

Taleb - anti-fragility - http://www.economist.com/blogs/multimedia/…

unintended consequences and more in my Bwain: http://webbrain.com/u/12YO

sob@harvard.edu there.

Scott's excellent columns: http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/bra…

Somebody draw a Geek's Kingdom.

Scott's biggest surprise: mom surfing.

And computers would be great for organizing recipes

Chris M: but that's why my mom got a TouchPad!

The Net also puts all of us at zero functional distance from everybody else. We've re-made Pangea.

My Grammy used it for downloading knitting patterns

an AT Kearney report just released says that the Internet is actually made out of cheese

Wendy - yes, it only took 25 years of using computers to get around what some foresaw originally

yeah, Google has that handled now. recipes.google.com I think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Bradner

This is an instance of why I'm skeptical about non-market based approaches. Now, I also admit that the markets are not great markets, have distortions, bad actors, etc.

Cheese? I thought it was made out of cats.

Benoit's blog: http://www.fiberevolution.com/

The Internet is made of sneeze?

damn you judi. I looked that up!

(not about dietary fiber)

Jim F - not sure what you mean by a nonmarket approach... modern telecom is the epitome of a nonmarket approach

what is a gradual epiphany?

tip for big hook rookies: don't fill up on the appetizers!

slow moving thoughts

Woops

hold on levi. dialing in now

heh

Dang iPad touch screen

Lev G.... gradual epiphany requires herbs?

Eliot, have I mentioned this year how much I adore you?

not yet!

I adore you Eliot.

yay!

thank you

Jean, he is blushing..

that is my natural color

I concur. I'm really enjoying getting to "know" people like Elliot and Doc before I've actually met them in person, even though we are sitting in the same room.

Also for new BigHook folks - when David blows the horn or calls time, he is not kidding. He is not nudging. He is serious. You will miss the music. Be on time.

I am totally having the same experience right now.

So many interesting things happening to follow up on later.

And for newbies, Benoit is music fanatic, and a hell of a harmonica player (which he forgot to pack **&$#!)

Booooo to no harmonica

get the harp out baby

no harmonica??

Will there be a sing-a-long. There was a sing-a-long at the Conference on World Affairs.

I loaned Benoit two idle harmonicas. One in G, one in D, I think.

can he play the spoons?

Yeah !

+1 Doc

Maggie Koerth: it depends upon the musicians

It is your natural color Eliot... but we worked through the blushing thing a few years ago. Unlike Herman, Eliot can handle the LOVE

Internet and Grilled Cheese http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/…

we have had them with lyrics posted in the chat!

Benoit also does great music photography

I now NEED the love

Chris M: let's talk in the break...

Elliot: That is totally awesome!

Jean, i can get used to that :-)

Jim F: agreed

Actually, Doc's harmonica keys are C and C. But I can work with that. I'm not sure I can work with the monsters who are doing the real music here...

I adore you Herman. :)

I tell people at Tucows that

Chris, I'd also like to drag you, Bill St. A, and James Baller into a conversation together.

my favorite RFC is still arpawocky.

I am perpetually involved

Maggie K: I'll keep an eye out, would enjoy it.

Wendy Seltzer, thanks: http://apprentiphotographe.com/musiciens/

Also, my fiber blog if anyone is interested: http://www.fiberevolution.com

The best thing about UDP jokes is that I don't care if you get them or not.

RFC-1 is unimportant like the core of the Earth of the Sun are unimportant.

HAH

we're doing a great job of racing through the rest of the room :)

its a meander race

and author of 3 or 4 of the 8 GSM patents

a meander race - love it

a futurist meets a historian in the present

Jerry, meander a bit

He's the one with the brain! I knew one of us had one...

jerry's brain is here http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/3D8005…

http://therexpedition.com/ The REXpedition (Jerry too!)

Elliot, I just get a 404 error, Jerry's Brain not found.

I say I outsource a huge portion of my brain - but Jerry did it and shared it online

Quakers ultimately responsible for the financial crash.

LOL Sascha

They made the whaling industry in Nantucket.

And invented Pennsylvania.

and oats!

Chris I can't tell whether that's a joke or not

Hmm..so we should be looking at people being perscuted now to predict the new Quaker revolution?

†http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pepper

Herman - you are on to something huge there....

Do we have a reason to tar and feather Rick W this year? Can we come up with one?

Trying to think of modern analogy for small religious movement perspecuted at home and driven out to other countries. Falun Gong?

especially if we combine it with the space aliens

I went to a quaker school. one odd thing is that they really aren't "christian" - definitely in the judeo christian tradition but there is literally no definition or description or anthropomorphic-ization of a deity.

It is the wounds we endure that stimulate us to grow...

we rule!

Steve, everything I know about Quaker school grads make me convinced they should rule the world.

Mary Evslin: the Internet is about power to the people

Maggie K: Best way to corrupt Quaker grads!

Hah!

Heard this morning that all the Vermont National Guard helicopters are in Iraq...

I went to a Quaker school too. Married (later divorced) a Quaker girl (we were kids), raised two Quaker kids, conscientiously objected to the Vietnam War... Still lament the near-complete absence of a peace movement (aside from the Quakers).

This room has a great collection of voices. Good accents, gravelly voices, sweet voices, et al.

Mennonites are serious pacifists too. (Where I come from, but not of which I am made)

Picture of the "Internet in a Suitcase" with identification of all equipment -- check out #6: http://humtechnet.com/content/whats-intern…

My Quaker ex-wife's dad (awesome dude) was a Mennonite.

here's the actual pic from Sascha's link above:

Panoramic picture of us:

You are sure Gary to post this on the net...??

one of my fave stories

Why do you need an electric heater?

to keep warm?

to cook on ofcourse..

I'd love to be on a smart grids BOF with anybody who is interested

I don't really know what one does on a BOF, but it sounds fun

BH 2011 = post-Hurricane 2.0.

explore the realm of the (im)possible, and how to get that done

rockin the house

Django is smilin' right now

on BEER - the europeans among us should try our local "Pabst Cordon Bleu" for americans, actually it is better than memory might serve

The best revenge on failing helpdesks ever (Mobistar), highly recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxXlDyTD7wo

we're reconvening for some musica. woo hoo!

there's no light on the artistes

can we light them up?

Were we supposed to dress for dinner and music?

there was a long email from David about the dress code, explaining that there actually isn't a dresscode

this sort of music makes me want to go into vaudeviille

take up soft-shoe

I love that the rhythm section is typing.

could we type in unison, in rhythm?

wanna try that?

slslfkfhrhlslfsnlajrl

that was my first attempt. not so good

slslfkfhrhlslfsnlajrl?

all together now!

slslfkfhrhlslfsnlajrl slslfkfhrhlslfsnlajrl slslfkfhrhlslfsnlajrl

slslrkrkrwhkeekslskrjrkskjrlrlsskslfkslskrhlskskflsksjfl

lkjlskjlfkjslrrnskskslskjflfksrhrhrlskdfjlsskrkrjsslkffhjlsskskdjrlfskfhls

brilliant

geeenius!

Link to NOAA on KATIA

our newest hurricane

Homage to Dick Dale

Shadows?

Not genius, lots and lots and lots of hard work! And a ton of talent.

walk don't run, then perfidio

now if you believe in me.

If anyone did NOT receive a book at check-in, please touch base with me tonight (after the music). Red Big Hook 2002 t-shirt.

back to walk don't run, by the ventures.

Ya gotta be an old disc jockey to know.. :-)

they take stuff everyone knows, that you mostly haven't heard for years and years, and make it completely new. very cool

woohoo!

Paper moon!

taking a swan dive...

swan lake iz de blues. niiiiice

But not a swan song

..now the heavy metal version

Carmen...

syncopated Carmen, wow

I love it

apparently, every song known to mankind can be Djangoized

Cuba and Seville...

who knew there was an instrument out there on the neck?

Hoping they incorporate that fish above their heads into the act at some point this weekend...

Beethoven south of the border

the Gypsy Kings!

A Fifth of Beethoven

awesome video ov US home prices

where are these guys on the Web?

Jerry M: this isn't django gypsy, it's spanish gypsy.

Si, Jerry.

yes, hence the Kings reference

but Django's lurking here everywhere

Well, no... ;-)

Sorry for being a French purist ;-)

actually . . . not too far off . . .

I want to see Kamman dancing on the table!

These guys have all their fingers. In fact, I think they are polyphonydactylic

Agreed, all their fingers

You can learn to do this: http://www.frankvignola.com/instruction.html

"Frank Vignola is one of the most extraordinary guitarists performing before the public today. His stunning virtuosity has made him the guitarist of choice for many of the world's top musicians, including Ringo Starr, Madonna, Donald Fagen, Wynton Marsalis, Tommy Emmanuel, the Boston Pops, the New York Pops, and guitar legend Les Paul, who named Vignola to his "Five Most Admired Guitar List" for the Wall Street Journal. Vignola's jaw-dropping technique explains why the New York Times deemed him "one of the brightest...stars of the guitar"."

canz we chat here?

Can I look you in the eyes here?

only if you can see them! >.<

it's where Ethiopian food comes from!

The completeness of the Ricardian victory is something of a curiosity and a mystery. It must have been due to a complex of suitabilities in the doctrine to the environment into which it was projected. That it reached conclusions quite different from what the ordinary uninstructed person would expect, added, I suppose, to its intellectual prestige. That its teaching, translated into practice, was austere and often unpalatable, lent it virtue. That it was adapted to carry a vast and consistent logical superstructure, gave it beauty. That it could explain much social injustice and apparent cruelty as an inevitable incident in the scheme of progress, and the attempt to change such things as likely on the whole to do more harm than good, commended it to authority. That it afforded a measure of justification to the free activities of the individual capitalist, attracted to it the support of the dominant social force behind authority.
– John Maynard Keynes

I love ethiopian food! (and eritrean food)

coffee as we know it started in Ethiopia

"Doctors do not solve your health problems."

DC has the best Ethiopian food in the US. The best in DC is Habisha, at the corner of 9th and U.

fistula

I read about this through, I think, and NPR story. It was heartbreaking.

Cutting for Stone? is that the right title?

Yup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie_I is from Ethiopia. Without him, no reggae.

teach the teacher-doctors

730k doctors in the US

<2k in ethiopia

and look at our health care!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat ?

Also, Ethiopia had a killer jazz scene in the 60s/70s. Highly recommend the Ethiopiques series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopiques

a great field guide for emergency care in developing countries, apparently

and this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_There_i…

do they want western medicine doctors (emergency and urgent care) exclusively, or eastern med doctors as well (maintenance and long-view care)?

And, Ethiopia brought some of the great marathoners: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Gebrselassie ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abebe_Bikila

@christopher S: Which one would you recommend ?

Judi, I'm not actually sure that's a reasonable way to divide medicine. My western doctor is evidence-based and deals a lot with our preventative care and maintenance.

oooh, e-patient care!

Inertia is rational

maggie, right, just trying to distinguish between "wanting doctors" and the broader need for medical care

I'm shocked! Shocked, to hear that there are profits being made here.

delightful Ethiopian artist Juie Mehretu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Mehretu image: http://www.sfmoma.org/explore/collection/a…

Shocked!

benoit, just remember that you and I have health care!

"Lying assumes the consequences of telling the truth."

What I love about the health care debate is people who freak out about the idea of single-payer or socialized medicine because it will get a bureaucracy involved in health care and have these gate-keepers making choices about your health. What the heck do those folks think happens now?

they don't think about it?

Maggie: You sound like someone supporting the government takeover of health care

Damn, you caught me. I'm secretly a communist.

Boing!

Goddess, we need some other alternatives than communist and capitalist....

this seems more positive by the same author http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-Happiness-…

Agreed.

Jean

I'm an idealist.

I'm being sarcastic

I thought it was a dichotomy between 'merican and communist

got that... and... what do we call it?

Benoit: The ethiopiques albums are hit or miss. Some songs are great, some are so so. There is a great NY based group called the Budos Band that is actually more accessible, and does a lot of ethiopiques style stuff. Plus, lots of their stuff can be found on youtube for free ;)

I'm an -ist.

and I've never been sarcastic. Ever.

maggie/jean - is this a supply demand problem?

Don't know

ie not enough doctors and too many patients

I don't know enough about the business of health care, honestly

I have a strong attachment to not having anything that I haven't generated being followed by ISM and my identity....

@christopher S: ok, need to check that.

"You are the dead." (1984)

I'm trying to figure out how my general practice doctor makes a living. He schedules 30 minutes with every patient. You go in for a 5 minute thing and he chats with you for 20 minutes. Why? Because the evidence shows that that contributes to positive overall health outcomes.

a capitalist would ask that question @guy - the lens determines the question

But I have no clue how he's not going out of business

we just had a really good Yi-Tan podcast call about these issues

Jean Russell - try Cuba? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/1…

with Tom Munnecke, who helped design what is now Global VistA, a great open-source health IT system created for the VA

http://yi-tan.wagn.org/wagn/Creating_a_Hea… is the page, but the podcast isn't edited and posted yet

The story of Alan reminds me of another story. A non-profit organization active in Africa was investing in hospitals and the most advanced incubators trying to fight the high rate of death at birth. Then they discovered that most women arrived too late at the hospitals with many of the baby already died of undercooling. The real solution was to provide all the little villages with special blankets. Those blankets alone were already diminishing the rates of death at a large scale. The real solution was not to implement the most advanced technology but implementing solutions which fit local circumstances.

We have placebo-based medicine

the need for business leverage is killing our society

What do you mean, Chris?

Somehow this guy comes to mind...

thanks @Guy!

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/eric_mea… - Eric Mead on the Magic of Placebos

Maggie: It seems like study after study looking at many recent drugs is showing they do not really perform better than placebo

203578_165494543506474…

A bit random - the neurobiology of narratives - DARPA - http://www.modernmythology.net/2011/08/viv…

From True Grit. His line: "Would either of you require medical attention?"

@chris m; don't tell that to my restless legs!

FDA approval process is designed to see if medicines do better than placebo ... but it seems that drug manufacturers are barely beating placebos statistically

Gotcha.

the Atlantic and other mags... cannot remember where just looked at it

they kick the crap out of placebos financially

Yeah. There is an issue with that and drugs.

so if we only added patent protection to placebos, we'd be all set?

Elliot: exactly! Your restless legs need placebo but they can't know it

shhhh they heard you

I secretly have a patent on sugar pills

That's why you should all buy stock in my new company, Placebex

this is the testing article, by Atun Gawande, who is writing terrific stuff on improving health care: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/12…

It's interesting that the angle here is the complications of the system, driven by the insurance companies, rather than just the cost. Thus "dumbing down the doctors" is one way to treat the problem.

Chris, I may have to sue you now

about placebos: they work pretty well if they're white pills. They work better if they're colorful and stamped with a letter. Better yet if they're in 2 color gel caps, and best of all if they're in shot form.

there's also the Nocebo Effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo

Here's a thing I wrote about the dental health therapists program on tribal lands in Alaska and Minnesota http://boingboing.net/2009/10/08/armed-to-…

Why is it that doctors have only one level (formally)? If a career was possible you also would be able to allocate types of issues tolevels of expoertise.

Herman: way to stump the room.

doctors in a suitcase?

I call MEME

telemedicine-equipped tuk-tuks?

the GigaTuk<tm>

Dr. Nachiket Mor's speech on Indian healthcare: http://ictph.org.in/blog/nachikets-note/es…

Unfortunately SF http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e…

Arnie loved his maid more than he loved telemedecine.

At least more often.

What DOES one do with a near-drowning victim?

Telemedicine is fine for somethings, but not the solution for primary care

anyone? (is there a doctor in the house--that isn't talking?)

I was wondering as well judi

Cisco == $$$$$

Rural Telemedicine in India - here's a venture funded group doing something real: http://www.indiastudychannel.com/resources…

Judi Clark: best answer seems http://firstaid.webmd.com/drowning-treatment

Thanks Elliot!

Ram: Jhunjhunwala is pretty good -- I've talked with him, but VC based startups have a big issue in India -- there's no exits

In spite of what I've saying about telemedicine, I do know good examples: Mahabir Pun did a nice one in Nepal

Jim - agree in general; Jhunjhunwala is a friend (and a good guy too :) VC based startups in India are in a bipolar distribution, IT/Pharma and all others ... the former have better options than the latter.

that one visit is nearly the cost spent on 50 indians

perspective

MRI in India costs USD 100 total; same equipment. Different economics.

LTTH: Lab To the Home!

mri in buffalo was only $350 :-)

Thanks!

Yo

Both mobility and medicine are huge huge costs with high potnetial for diverted funds to FttH

hotel California?

Segovia

if wireless networks and cheap smartphones are ubiquitous (like in some developing countries), then is a stethoscope not needed - just use smartphone mic and facetime...

Ram: read Nachiket Mor's talk, I found it interesting

Is the smartphone, mice and facetime really cheaper?

making each day of the year
Changing my life with a wave of her hand
Nobody can deny that there's something there

There, running my hands through her hair
Both of us thinking how good it can be
Someone is speaking but she doesn't know he's there

I want her everywhere and if she's beside me
I know I need never care
But to love her is to need her everywhere
Knowing that love is to share

Each one believing that love never dies
Watching her eyes and hoping I'm always there

I want her everywhere and if she's beside me
I know I need never care
But to love her is to need her everywhere
Knowing that love is to share

Each one believing that love never dies
Watching her eyes and hoping I'm always there

To be there and everywhere
Here, there and everywhere

I'm not meaning to be devil's advocate. I honestly don't know.

Jim F, will do.

Maggie Koerth: smartphones in india are now about usd 20; wireless access in developing countries has replaced most other networks...with no real roaming charges

Cite for smartphones costing $20 in India? I was there less than 2 months ago, and it is around $100 for the cheapest Android phone. An unlocked Sony Xperia was $600USD

cool. so that answers that then

Killing me softly...

Ram: phone price is great, but 3G is not available outside the cities -- it turns to Edge or GPRS. Also, providers get much greater Rs for the spectrum with voice than with data. Given the large population and limited spectrum, 3G data will be scarce and expensive. IMHO :-)

Huawei seems to be making the cheapest smartphones on the market, but they're not $20, and not close to it yet

Doc Searls: Written about Don McLean

Christopher S: MicroMax distributes the $20 smart phone. Not quite Android, but not bad..Total Blackberry copy

Christopher - you can get phones from MicroMax

total ripoffs with kits from China

Ram, do they sell them in fake Blackberry stores?

nope

jk. Which reminds me, did anyone ever say whether the fake Apple stores in China were selling real Apples or not?

Maggie Koerth - they don't pretend to be blackberry

Wow, interesting. Thanks Ram/Jim. I totally got ripped off buying an Xperia in Bangalore. Shoulda bought 20 Micromax phones

How high the moon

Jim F: agree re. bandwidth/spectrum being the bottleneck. But the optimist in me thinks that this problem will be easier solved (Wimax or its successor?) - and at least basic medical care by a GP is then more accessible in rural areas anywhere in the world. I read about a California program for "TeleYoga" and "TelePilates" for seniors.

Jim F: Excellent article from Dr. Mor - thanks!

Frank's guitar: http://www.frankvignola.com/gear.html